I read the entire post and agree with you, but I would still change the line in your manifesto because I had the exact same reaction as the other reader when I read “Trans people already have the rights accorded to everyone else.” Conservatives said the same thing about gay people.
Yes, you’re right that it’s different—but we already struggle to persuade normies that gender isn’t “the next gay rights,” and echoing old anti-gay arguments works against this goal. So for that reason, I wouldn’t argue that one is about equality while the other asks for special treatment. I know what you mean, but it’s too easy for people to flip it around.
Besides, I think you can make a stronger case in #8. The biggest difference between gay and trans “rights” is that gay marriage doesn’t require us to affirm something that is objectively false. If we allow people to say they’re women when they are not, all sorts of laws and customs break down. This is fundamentally different from the demands of the gay rights movement.
This not responsive to the current post, but I wanted to share this old article by Martha Nussbaum on Judith Butler that made me think about your overall argument: https://newrepublic.com/article/150687/professor-parody, especially Butler's idea that both gender and sex are social constructs.
Your position is very well argued and convincing to me. I do look forward to the responses of other folks. Whip smart as you are, one of the best things about being here is the high, and generally polite, level of engagement your posts attract.
Insightful as always, Sarah. This is why I think the two sides on the gay marriage debate were almost always talking past each other. It’s also why I never thought that being against gay marriage constituted any kind of bigotry or phobia. Debating the meaning of marriage was always legitimate, and while I was totally ok with letting the gays in, I don’t think anyone’s rights would have been infringed if the definition didn’t change. Marriage is a socially-defined institution which is inherently discriminatory, no one has a right to it.
I'm new here so will ease into actual contributions/reactions to what you're saying but just wanted to say hello and that I enjoy your writing Sarah : )
This essay by you, though not the only good one, is why I just decided to subscribe! Your understanding of the social and evolutionary roots of marriage is almost unique, as well as your incredible writing talent and your independent and substantive comments. Hats off to you!
I am 67 years old and gay....and lived through it all from the sexual 70s to the plagued 80s and 90s.
I will give you an anecdote. Back in the 1980s, I kept hearing religious people, usually evangelical/fundamentalist, condemn "abortion and homosexuality" again and again. And one day it dawned on me that abortion and homosexuality were displacements for contraception and divorce.
And at that moment, I realized that fundamentalism was in disintegration since it could no longer draw the boundaries of moral probity so that it was directed at people in the congregation, heterosexuals, and instead had to lash out against homosexuals or the furtive act of abortion. I knew at that point that the rights campaign and gay visibility wins were close at hand.
I take it you know that when Andrew Sullivan published the essay in 1989 that set the arguments for gay marriage, many gays really hated him for attempting to "tame" gays. What made gay marriage a thing in the gay movement was Karl Rove, I believe, telling Bush to use it as a campaign prop.
Okay, here I have to hugely disagree with you. Not so much about the gay marriage part, but about this: "Sex is a potentially life-altering event for a woman, but costless to men"
Your argument is that it is costless to the man if he's a sociopath. Well, ditto for the woman: if she's a sociopath, abortion & infanticide are options, or abandoning the child to someone else (all of which are far from unknown).
But most people aren't sociopaths. Most men aren't sociopaths. Which means having children is _the_ life altering experience for Men. And it is one that makes them powerless, places them at the mercy of the woman.
Divorce law favours mothers over fathers when it comes to custody, by a huge margin. And if you have any sense of responsibility, you cannot let your child go through a broken home. So a man with children is tied more securely than any other - and, yes, there are women who exploit this. There are women who just say "My way or I'll take your kids". I don't think people understand just how awful that is.
Without in any way diminishing the wickedness of domestic violence, this is worse. Why? Ask any parent: would you rather 1) receive a beating or 2) lose your child? What parent wouldn't chose 1) in a heartbeat?
I love your writing, but please understand that men are also human beings, and most of them are good and not sociopaths.
I think there is a quite a bit of misunderstanding here!
First--You should note that I'm purposefully not bringing in any claims of morality. My claim is that it is *possible* to be a sociopath as a man and succeed reproductively, and it is. And no, it is *not* the same for a woman. Even if she was a sociopath and was willing to kill/abandon her newborns, pregnancy itself is extremely costly (even deadly) without modern medicine.
(edit--this is important because over time, if being a sociopath remains a good strategy for either sex, we *would* see more sociopaths in that sex)
Second--the paragraph you are referencing is setting the state for the natural state of things. Divorce law is a societal construction, one of the many ways it restricts male freedom.
The true moral imperative of gay marriage is that it allowed gay couples to have the same governmental benefits as straight couples, in the eyes of the law. That is ultimately what brought Obergefell to the court, and I think it remains the strongest case.
Some religious people will never agree that two women are married--but that’s irrelevant so long as the government provides them with the same benefits allowed to straight married couples.
It is in this particular *legal* way that gays were being discriminated against (denied benefits), and after gay marriage became legal, they gained full and equal rights in the eyes of the law, along with many religious and social institutions.
Contrast this with many of the “rights” trans advocates are asking for, and you enter the realm of special rights--all trans people already have fair and equal access to *a* restroom, or *a* sports team--just not the one that “aligns with their gender identity.
This is distinct from women campaigning to have separate, equally funded sports programs, where none previously existed, and it is distinct from gays asking for the right to marry, just as straights did.
The real criticism of gay marriage is that it is a part of a redefinition of marriage away from a strategic partnership between two people for the purpose of raising children to a ceremonial recognition of romantic infatuation.
The real destroyer of marriage isn't the gays or gay marriage. It's divorce culture, which has ravaged the childhood of millions. Gays have had nothing to do with that. I'd accept redefining gay marriage as "civil partnership" or whatever, if it meant undoing the horror of divorce culture, but it wouldn't move that one millimetre. Anyway, one may not do evil that good may come.
This is an anti-evolutionary view. Fundamental differences between the sexes are and never have been a "matter of choice". Failure to understand the evolutionary roots of human behavior and social arrangements is the fatal stumbling point of the left and the cultural anthropologists. Why does this notion of "equality" in the sexes keep rearing its retrogressive head? Why is Nature shoved aside in favor of human choices? It is this kind of irrational and anti-scientific thinking that has produced wokeness and all manner of
distorted theorizing. You need to read about evolution, starting with Richard Dawkins and including Steven Pinker, among others. "Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution"; go look up the author of this and take it seriously, as Sarah does.
Could you clarify that point about the "fundamental differences between men and women" being a matter of choice?Are you merely saying that this is what is believed by many today, or that YOU yourself believe this? This wasn't clear. If the former, then I apologize for jumping to conclusions.Obviously these differences are NOT a matter of choice but biological and evolutionary in nature. Do you agree with this?
Gay men and lesbians (gay men in particular) wanting to get married elevated the status of marriage. This after a historically unprecedented period when marriage had begun to seem irrelevant, if not anachronistic. The right to marry was now something desired, fought for. Once again, marriage was a very big deal.
Since the 1970s, conservatives had often decried that single motherhood was no longer taboo. They did this, they assured us, not because they were against these women but because of the societal ills that came from having so many women raise children in poverty. Life was much harder for these women and their children were at much greater risk. Marriage was incredibly important.
With hindsight, we can argue that conservatives should be ecstatic and profoundly grateful that gay men, lesbians, Hollywood and the media did so much to celebrate and highlight the institution that they view as vital for social cohesion, true personal fulfillment, the security of children and the amelioration of post-1960s multigenerational poverty.
One commenter at least has mentioned the distinction in the US between legal marriage (you get a license from the court) and religious marriage (you get another license -- if you want to -- from your church). To me, the legal / religious distinction may be more important for this issue than the traditional / sentimental distinction made above b/c it helps show how trans rights (primarily b/c of their implications for children) challenge the assumptions of liberal pluralism in a way that gay rights don't.
Most us reading this blog probably agree with Sarah that "traditional marriage" is anachronistic in 21st century America, but that is not a view that we have to impose on everyone else in order to create a successful liberal, pluralistic society. We can accommodate religious communities that still hold the values of traditional marriage, and we can give individuals the freedom to join those communities if it corresponds with their religious beliefs or if they think that a traditional marriage will make them happier. When the state grants a certain set of legal and economic rights to a couple seeking a marriage license, it doesn't have to investigate the deeper reasons behind their decision to get married -- whether it is sentimental, economic, religious or something else doesn't matter to the state. It just has to know that the couple has freely chosen to enter into the relationship that they seek to certify with a license (and that they are not already married to someone else). All we ask of those communities who still hold to more traditional views of marriage is that they don't try to force their version of marriage on everyone else outside of their community.
This is consistent with the broader goals of a liberal, pluralistic society in which we try to agree to a thin set of legal rules that will allow us to live together successfully while accommodating a wide diversity of deeper religious/moral/cultural/philosophical values that we probably will never agree on.
Gay rights and gay marriage fit comfortably into liberal pluralism b/c we don't really need to inquire into why someone is gay. Maybe homosexuality is biological, maybe it is socially constructed, maybe it is chosen. We don't have to agree on that to give gay people rights. The state doesn't need someone to prove that they are "really" biologically homosexual before they can get a gay marriage license. All that matters is that the person seeking a gay marriage is an adult and has freely chosen the relationship with the partner that they seek to marry.
If only adults were involved, trans rights probably could fit into a liberal, pluralistic society like gay rights. I wouldn't have to agree with a trans person about why they are seeking medical transition. I may think that the idea of a gendered soul is incomprehensible metaphysical nonsense. I may believe that they are really motivated by psychological drives that they themselves would consider demeaning. But I don't have to agree with their metaphysical beliefs to grant them their rights as long as I don't prevent informed adults from seeking medical transition (for whatever reason) or discriminate against them politically or economically because of their choice to undergo transition.
The real challenge is that -- for biological reasons -- medical transition is harder if someone has to wait until they are an adult before starting. But we can't treat children as autonomous adults who can make their own decisions about medical transition. Even a liberal pluralistic society has to take on a parental role in guiding and protecting minors. Thus, we need a thicker social consensus about what is appropriate for minors than we do for adults. Trans activists perceive this. They recognize that for them to obtain their full rights as they understand them, it is not enough for the rest of us to tolerate their ideology as we tolerate the conflicting ideas of differing religious traditions. We actually have to agree with their ideology before we will be willing to grant children the rights that activists think that they deserve.
When mutual toleration is no longer tolerable and a group thinks that metaphysical consensus must be enforced for them to obtain their rights, liberal pluralism starts to break down. Trans activism is not the only source of stress for liberalism these days, but feeds into and reinforces a broader sense shared by so many activists on both the left and right that enlightenment liberalism has failed us.
"This need for certainty in paternity drives society to restrict the female in all manner of ways, limiting her to a life of near servitude. "
How is it, that I, gay and 67, have understood that since almost high school and so many others get livid if you mention that? I am talking about the so-called affluent and well-educated.
I've told them that the need for certain paternity is the reason women have always paid a heavy price for promiscuity, and also have had to suffer things such as burkas, and feet binding, and on and on....Yet again, so often that explanation is met with rage because the mere noticing and saying it can only mean that you agree with it. Again, that is among the well-educated and affluent......
Gay marriage may have finished off the concept, as Sarah states, but feminists had fatally undermined it long before.
<i>"A social institution formed to incentivize the carrying out reproductive roles in a manner maximally beneficial for offspring and society"</i>
It is a concept with social, legal, and religious aspects that governs not just reproductive roles (that's far to limited a view) but the whole process of child-rearing. The idea that it makes women subordinate is ridiculous. They acquire the man's social status and control over his financial resources. The fact that they have those additional resources available to raise their children benefits women tremendously. And they can do it without the drudgery of a 9-5 job or the dangers of commuting.
Traditionally, marriage was indeed all about assurance of paternity. The whole idea was a way to go from "it takes a village" of women raising kids in a group to families in which the father provides resources to his children far above what the collective group could. It's an agreement: financial resources for an assurance that the kids are indeed his. Hence the concern about adultery (the etymology of which shows that it was all about mixing sperm). Married men are also expected to be faithful, but women have a much less fierce reaction to cheating, unless the man ends up paying money to the support another family. Whereas if she so much as appears to cheat <i>at all</i>, it's game over. People who think there's a double standard in regard to cheating do not understand this.
For this agreement to work, both men and women have to be able to offer something that the other needs but does not have. Women provide the gestation, delivery, and early nourishment. Men provide the resources and protection, and have instincts to do that. Part of this agreement had long been that providing those financial resources was the man's job, and the woman's was the gestation. I'm certain that that, more so than any sexist ideas about female abilities (and quite likely the origin of such ideas), was behind the restriction on women's employment. One of the early wins for feminists was the ability to get almost any professional job (at least those which women want, which are only the high-pay, high-status jobs that don't require upper body strength). That has pushed men aside and removed their bargaining leverage for winning mates. Public acceptance of single motherhood and out-of-wedlock births finished off any real benefit of marriage for women except grifting. Today, wives still demand all the resources that the father can provide, but also want the ability to get them on their own.
In the traditional view, gay marriage simply made no sense. It only became acceptable when the public understanding of marriage changed to Sarah's second definition.
One small tiny thing, if I may, as someone with one foot on both sides zigzagging all over the place.... you often use quotes for emphasis which is a legitimate use of "quotes" and I thought nothing of it until I got to "equality" and my reptilian fight-or-flight brainstem (that old thing) whispered in my ear: "SCARE QUOTES!!!!!!"
Are the "emphasis quotes" superfluous? Who are they for if they lose a non-zero amount of readers otherwise following you down this path?
Its a tiny thing, but I was dislodged from my lock-step leftist Real Communism Has Never Been Tried(tm) echo chamber by just a very few tiny things ultimately pointing to a glitch in the matrix once coupled to people's demonstrable willingness to ignore them.
I was going to comment, but you've outlined and gone beyond my initial thoughts perfectly. My position is that the erosion (eradication, I suppose, at this point) of traditional marriage was an enormous loss for society as a whole, and for women in particular (although it has detrimentally affected men as well). We are rapidly descending into chaos and ruin without it. No one is sorrier to come to this conclusion than I am - as a young girl and later woman, I bought the premises of feminism hook line and sinker. Only when I was looking for a spouse, and then later became pregnant with my first child, did the cracks start to really show themselves. My personal experiences and my observations of the world in the past two decades or so have cured me (slowly, and then all at once, as others have said) of feminist pretensions and convinced me that we have taken so many wrong turns that the way forward seems bleak and/or impossible. Sentimental marriage is all well and good for two adults. But it is a wholly inadequate environment for raising the next generation, and we are witnessing the dysfunction that has resulted from the triumph of individual freedom over duty and responsibility to the family and community.
I read the entire post and agree with you, but I would still change the line in your manifesto because I had the exact same reaction as the other reader when I read “Trans people already have the rights accorded to everyone else.” Conservatives said the same thing about gay people.
Yes, you’re right that it’s different—but we already struggle to persuade normies that gender isn’t “the next gay rights,” and echoing old anti-gay arguments works against this goal. So for that reason, I wouldn’t argue that one is about equality while the other asks for special treatment. I know what you mean, but it’s too easy for people to flip it around.
Besides, I think you can make a stronger case in #8. The biggest difference between gay and trans “rights” is that gay marriage doesn’t require us to affirm something that is objectively false. If we allow people to say they’re women when they are not, all sorts of laws and customs break down. This is fundamentally different from the demands of the gay rights movement.
Thanks! I haven’t decided how/what I will change about that line yet, so I’ll think about what you’ve said.
And as for the rest, I’ll wait until the next post, which I think you’ll like :)
This not responsive to the current post, but I wanted to share this old article by Martha Nussbaum on Judith Butler that made me think about your overall argument: https://newrepublic.com/article/150687/professor-parody, especially Butler's idea that both gender and sex are social constructs.
!!
This article was my introduction to Butler (after a failed / painful attempt at trying to read her directly).
Your position is very well argued and convincing to me. I do look forward to the responses of other folks. Whip smart as you are, one of the best things about being here is the high, and generally polite, level of engagement your posts attract.
Insightful as always, Sarah. This is why I think the two sides on the gay marriage debate were almost always talking past each other. It’s also why I never thought that being against gay marriage constituted any kind of bigotry or phobia. Debating the meaning of marriage was always legitimate, and while I was totally ok with letting the gays in, I don’t think anyone’s rights would have been infringed if the definition didn’t change. Marriage is a socially-defined institution which is inherently discriminatory, no one has a right to it.
I'm new here so will ease into actual contributions/reactions to what you're saying but just wanted to say hello and that I enjoy your writing Sarah : )
This essay by you, though not the only good one, is why I just decided to subscribe! Your understanding of the social and evolutionary roots of marriage is almost unique, as well as your incredible writing talent and your independent and substantive comments. Hats off to you!
Thank you Lorna!
Gays would never have gotten the right to marry unless marriage had already been thoroughly trashed by the sexual revolution and easy divorce.
Yes, But why does homosexuality become normalized? Is it just killer arguments by gays? I don't think so at all.....not from what I saw.
I am 67 years old and gay....and lived through it all from the sexual 70s to the plagued 80s and 90s.
I will give you an anecdote. Back in the 1980s, I kept hearing religious people, usually evangelical/fundamentalist, condemn "abortion and homosexuality" again and again. And one day it dawned on me that abortion and homosexuality were displacements for contraception and divorce.
And at that moment, I realized that fundamentalism was in disintegration since it could no longer draw the boundaries of moral probity so that it was directed at people in the congregation, heterosexuals, and instead had to lash out against homosexuals or the furtive act of abortion. I knew at that point that the rights campaign and gay visibility wins were close at hand.
I take it you know that when Andrew Sullivan published the essay in 1989 that set the arguments for gay marriage, many gays really hated him for attempting to "tame" gays. What made gay marriage a thing in the gay movement was Karl Rove, I believe, telling Bush to use it as a campaign prop.
https://newrepublic.com/article/79054/here-comes-the-groom
*heavy sigh*
Okay, here I have to hugely disagree with you. Not so much about the gay marriage part, but about this: "Sex is a potentially life-altering event for a woman, but costless to men"
Your argument is that it is costless to the man if he's a sociopath. Well, ditto for the woman: if she's a sociopath, abortion & infanticide are options, or abandoning the child to someone else (all of which are far from unknown).
But most people aren't sociopaths. Most men aren't sociopaths. Which means having children is _the_ life altering experience for Men. And it is one that makes them powerless, places them at the mercy of the woman.
Divorce law favours mothers over fathers when it comes to custody, by a huge margin. And if you have any sense of responsibility, you cannot let your child go through a broken home. So a man with children is tied more securely than any other - and, yes, there are women who exploit this. There are women who just say "My way or I'll take your kids". I don't think people understand just how awful that is.
Without in any way diminishing the wickedness of domestic violence, this is worse. Why? Ask any parent: would you rather 1) receive a beating or 2) lose your child? What parent wouldn't chose 1) in a heartbeat?
I love your writing, but please understand that men are also human beings, and most of them are good and not sociopaths.
I think there is a quite a bit of misunderstanding here!
First--You should note that I'm purposefully not bringing in any claims of morality. My claim is that it is *possible* to be a sociopath as a man and succeed reproductively, and it is. And no, it is *not* the same for a woman. Even if she was a sociopath and was willing to kill/abandon her newborns, pregnancy itself is extremely costly (even deadly) without modern medicine.
(edit--this is important because over time, if being a sociopath remains a good strategy for either sex, we *would* see more sociopaths in that sex)
Second--the paragraph you are referencing is setting the state for the natural state of things. Divorce law is a societal construction, one of the many ways it restricts male freedom.
The true moral imperative of gay marriage is that it allowed gay couples to have the same governmental benefits as straight couples, in the eyes of the law. That is ultimately what brought Obergefell to the court, and I think it remains the strongest case.
Some religious people will never agree that two women are married--but that’s irrelevant so long as the government provides them with the same benefits allowed to straight married couples.
It is in this particular *legal* way that gays were being discriminated against (denied benefits), and after gay marriage became legal, they gained full and equal rights in the eyes of the law, along with many religious and social institutions.
Contrast this with many of the “rights” trans advocates are asking for, and you enter the realm of special rights--all trans people already have fair and equal access to *a* restroom, or *a* sports team--just not the one that “aligns with their gender identity.
This is distinct from women campaigning to have separate, equally funded sports programs, where none previously existed, and it is distinct from gays asking for the right to marry, just as straights did.
The real criticism of gay marriage is that it is a part of a redefinition of marriage away from a strategic partnership between two people for the purpose of raising children to a ceremonial recognition of romantic infatuation.
The real destroyer of marriage isn't the gays or gay marriage. It's divorce culture, which has ravaged the childhood of millions. Gays have had nothing to do with that. I'd accept redefining gay marriage as "civil partnership" or whatever, if it meant undoing the horror of divorce culture, but it wouldn't move that one millimetre. Anyway, one may not do evil that good may come.
This is an anti-evolutionary view. Fundamental differences between the sexes are and never have been a "matter of choice". Failure to understand the evolutionary roots of human behavior and social arrangements is the fatal stumbling point of the left and the cultural anthropologists. Why does this notion of "equality" in the sexes keep rearing its retrogressive head? Why is Nature shoved aside in favor of human choices? It is this kind of irrational and anti-scientific thinking that has produced wokeness and all manner of
distorted theorizing. You need to read about evolution, starting with Richard Dawkins and including Steven Pinker, among others. "Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution"; go look up the author of this and take it seriously, as Sarah does.
Could you clarify that point about the "fundamental differences between men and women" being a matter of choice?Are you merely saying that this is what is believed by many today, or that YOU yourself believe this? This wasn't clear. If the former, then I apologize for jumping to conclusions.Obviously these differences are NOT a matter of choice but biological and evolutionary in nature. Do you agree with this?
Not at all. It seemed like a very clear statement. Or perhaps it needs clarification.
Gay men and lesbians (gay men in particular) wanting to get married elevated the status of marriage. This after a historically unprecedented period when marriage had begun to seem irrelevant, if not anachronistic. The right to marry was now something desired, fought for. Once again, marriage was a very big deal.
Since the 1970s, conservatives had often decried that single motherhood was no longer taboo. They did this, they assured us, not because they were against these women but because of the societal ills that came from having so many women raise children in poverty. Life was much harder for these women and their children were at much greater risk. Marriage was incredibly important.
With hindsight, we can argue that conservatives should be ecstatic and profoundly grateful that gay men, lesbians, Hollywood and the media did so much to celebrate and highlight the institution that they view as vital for social cohesion, true personal fulfillment, the security of children and the amelioration of post-1960s multigenerational poverty.
One commenter at least has mentioned the distinction in the US between legal marriage (you get a license from the court) and religious marriage (you get another license -- if you want to -- from your church). To me, the legal / religious distinction may be more important for this issue than the traditional / sentimental distinction made above b/c it helps show how trans rights (primarily b/c of their implications for children) challenge the assumptions of liberal pluralism in a way that gay rights don't.
Most us reading this blog probably agree with Sarah that "traditional marriage" is anachronistic in 21st century America, but that is not a view that we have to impose on everyone else in order to create a successful liberal, pluralistic society. We can accommodate religious communities that still hold the values of traditional marriage, and we can give individuals the freedom to join those communities if it corresponds with their religious beliefs or if they think that a traditional marriage will make them happier. When the state grants a certain set of legal and economic rights to a couple seeking a marriage license, it doesn't have to investigate the deeper reasons behind their decision to get married -- whether it is sentimental, economic, religious or something else doesn't matter to the state. It just has to know that the couple has freely chosen to enter into the relationship that they seek to certify with a license (and that they are not already married to someone else). All we ask of those communities who still hold to more traditional views of marriage is that they don't try to force their version of marriage on everyone else outside of their community.
This is consistent with the broader goals of a liberal, pluralistic society in which we try to agree to a thin set of legal rules that will allow us to live together successfully while accommodating a wide diversity of deeper religious/moral/cultural/philosophical values that we probably will never agree on.
Gay rights and gay marriage fit comfortably into liberal pluralism b/c we don't really need to inquire into why someone is gay. Maybe homosexuality is biological, maybe it is socially constructed, maybe it is chosen. We don't have to agree on that to give gay people rights. The state doesn't need someone to prove that they are "really" biologically homosexual before they can get a gay marriage license. All that matters is that the person seeking a gay marriage is an adult and has freely chosen the relationship with the partner that they seek to marry.
If only adults were involved, trans rights probably could fit into a liberal, pluralistic society like gay rights. I wouldn't have to agree with a trans person about why they are seeking medical transition. I may think that the idea of a gendered soul is incomprehensible metaphysical nonsense. I may believe that they are really motivated by psychological drives that they themselves would consider demeaning. But I don't have to agree with their metaphysical beliefs to grant them their rights as long as I don't prevent informed adults from seeking medical transition (for whatever reason) or discriminate against them politically or economically because of their choice to undergo transition.
The real challenge is that -- for biological reasons -- medical transition is harder if someone has to wait until they are an adult before starting. But we can't treat children as autonomous adults who can make their own decisions about medical transition. Even a liberal pluralistic society has to take on a parental role in guiding and protecting minors. Thus, we need a thicker social consensus about what is appropriate for minors than we do for adults. Trans activists perceive this. They recognize that for them to obtain their full rights as they understand them, it is not enough for the rest of us to tolerate their ideology as we tolerate the conflicting ideas of differing religious traditions. We actually have to agree with their ideology before we will be willing to grant children the rights that activists think that they deserve.
When mutual toleration is no longer tolerable and a group thinks that metaphysical consensus must be enforced for them to obtain their rights, liberal pluralism starts to break down. Trans activism is not the only source of stress for liberalism these days, but feeds into and reinforces a broader sense shared by so many activists on both the left and right that enlightenment liberalism has failed us.
"This need for certainty in paternity drives society to restrict the female in all manner of ways, limiting her to a life of near servitude. "
How is it, that I, gay and 67, have understood that since almost high school and so many others get livid if you mention that? I am talking about the so-called affluent and well-educated.
I've told them that the need for certain paternity is the reason women have always paid a heavy price for promiscuity, and also have had to suffer things such as burkas, and feet binding, and on and on....Yet again, so often that explanation is met with rage because the mere noticing and saying it can only mean that you agree with it. Again, that is among the well-educated and affluent......
All I care about is that we as a species stop being tribal. Marriage is tribal.
Gay marriage may have finished off the concept, as Sarah states, but feminists had fatally undermined it long before.
<i>"A social institution formed to incentivize the carrying out reproductive roles in a manner maximally beneficial for offspring and society"</i>
It is a concept with social, legal, and religious aspects that governs not just reproductive roles (that's far to limited a view) but the whole process of child-rearing. The idea that it makes women subordinate is ridiculous. They acquire the man's social status and control over his financial resources. The fact that they have those additional resources available to raise their children benefits women tremendously. And they can do it without the drudgery of a 9-5 job or the dangers of commuting.
Traditionally, marriage was indeed all about assurance of paternity. The whole idea was a way to go from "it takes a village" of women raising kids in a group to families in which the father provides resources to his children far above what the collective group could. It's an agreement: financial resources for an assurance that the kids are indeed his. Hence the concern about adultery (the etymology of which shows that it was all about mixing sperm). Married men are also expected to be faithful, but women have a much less fierce reaction to cheating, unless the man ends up paying money to the support another family. Whereas if she so much as appears to cheat <i>at all</i>, it's game over. People who think there's a double standard in regard to cheating do not understand this.
For this agreement to work, both men and women have to be able to offer something that the other needs but does not have. Women provide the gestation, delivery, and early nourishment. Men provide the resources and protection, and have instincts to do that. Part of this agreement had long been that providing those financial resources was the man's job, and the woman's was the gestation. I'm certain that that, more so than any sexist ideas about female abilities (and quite likely the origin of such ideas), was behind the restriction on women's employment. One of the early wins for feminists was the ability to get almost any professional job (at least those which women want, which are only the high-pay, high-status jobs that don't require upper body strength). That has pushed men aside and removed their bargaining leverage for winning mates. Public acceptance of single motherhood and out-of-wedlock births finished off any real benefit of marriage for women except grifting. Today, wives still demand all the resources that the father can provide, but also want the ability to get them on their own.
In the traditional view, gay marriage simply made no sense. It only became acceptable when the public understanding of marriage changed to Sarah's second definition.
One small tiny thing, if I may, as someone with one foot on both sides zigzagging all over the place.... you often use quotes for emphasis which is a legitimate use of "quotes" and I thought nothing of it until I got to "equality" and my reptilian fight-or-flight brainstem (that old thing) whispered in my ear: "SCARE QUOTES!!!!!!"
Are the "emphasis quotes" superfluous? Who are they for if they lose a non-zero amount of readers otherwise following you down this path?
Its a tiny thing, but I was dislodged from my lock-step leftist Real Communism Has Never Been Tried(tm) echo chamber by just a very few tiny things ultimately pointing to a glitch in the matrix once coupled to people's demonstrable willingness to ignore them.
I was going to comment, but you've outlined and gone beyond my initial thoughts perfectly. My position is that the erosion (eradication, I suppose, at this point) of traditional marriage was an enormous loss for society as a whole, and for women in particular (although it has detrimentally affected men as well). We are rapidly descending into chaos and ruin without it. No one is sorrier to come to this conclusion than I am - as a young girl and later woman, I bought the premises of feminism hook line and sinker. Only when I was looking for a spouse, and then later became pregnant with my first child, did the cracks start to really show themselves. My personal experiences and my observations of the world in the past two decades or so have cured me (slowly, and then all at once, as others have said) of feminist pretensions and convinced me that we have taken so many wrong turns that the way forward seems bleak and/or impossible. Sentimental marriage is all well and good for two adults. But it is a wholly inadequate environment for raising the next generation, and we are witnessing the dysfunction that has resulted from the triumph of individual freedom over duty and responsibility to the family and community.