Following the finale of my podcast with Meghan Daum, A Special Place in Hell, PJ Vogt of Search Engine reached out to me to come on his show to discuss the decision to stop, and the role that ayahuasca may have had to play.
Didn't Luigi Mangione do psychedelics? My working theory is he has schizophrenia and paranoia led him to think he's a great man of history. He's at the right age, and psychedelics are a known risk for people with schizophrenic tendencies.
I tried ayahuasca about 10 years ago in Colombia and it had zero effect on me, probably because I was on SSRIs. Since then I've tried both mushrooms and LSD -- same result. :-(
Yeah, he did, and I think your working theory is probably correct. :(
I think for aya you have to be off SSRIs, they don't work well together at all. The retreat organizers were very serious on the topic, so it must be for good reason.
Hi Sarah. I heard your pod with Ethan and thought it was great. I have a question about your comment that you probably would not take ayahuasca again.
I use psychedelics somewhat regularly, multiple times per year, and am planning to take pharmahuasca in the near future. I view psychedelics (and drugs generally) as the amoral, neutral molecules. All the good and bad lies in our interaction with the substances. With that in mind, my question about future use is very sincere and not judgmental.
I find the psychedelic experience frightening but overall positive, and I tend to go on a journey when curiosity overcomes my fear. Is your trepidation a result of the psychedelic state, or more about the retreat surroundings? I have some interest in doing a retreat but honestly prefer to trip alone and have misgivings about doing so in a group atmosphere. Sorry for the wandering question, and thanks for the opportunity to post.
Thanks for asking! Many of my friends have said that my "bad" trip was due to the surroundings, and given that many of them feel strongly about it, perhaps it is so!
Although my own (strong) feeling is that it didn't really matter. Once I plugged up my ears and closed my eyes, I went where it took me.
As far as "letting go"... I think this is partially why I gravitated to something so powerful right away. I don't really "let go" easily (it is not something I can control), so I wanted something strong enough to pull the rug from under me. I'm not sure if it did that--I think a part of me disassociated and maintained lucidity/skepticism throughout.
Psychedelics can tell you what you need to know even without taking them..seems like a contradiction, but it’s usually wise to follow your gut. Even bad trips give a person insight. But whatever..look at my avatar and know that I used to do acid right out of the blotter and eat shrooms and NEVER had a bad trip lol. Weed on the other hand makes me paranoid for a while almost every time I smoke
Ahh.. I did not gather that you had a bad trip from the podcast. Enough said, I have had bad experiences with psychedelics, mostly when I was younger and more foolish.. The psychonauts out in cyberspace will coach that a bad trip can be the most beneficial, but I think it is all pretty personal and singular.
Pharmahuasca is simply a mix of a pharmaceutical maoi inhibitor and a dmt (dimethyltryptamine) source, rather than a plant tea/extraction in the case of ayahuasca. Pills rather than green stew. I won't bore you or others with details, but there is lots of information out there.
Are you glad you did it at a retreat rather than at home alone or with friends? I know one great advantage of a retreat is not having to source molecules.
I have terrible nausea problems, so I actually took a *teensy* bit of zofran both nights. It helped tremendously. I still threw up, but it wasn't a big problem. Just came and went.
No I did not see entities, but everyone there radically transformed *into* entities.
And Sarah, my offer stands (I return-emailed one of your automatic missives, so you may or may not have received it, so I put it on Bluesky as well).
You leave Twitter. And I'm sorry, but it will always be Twitter, to me.
You join Threads and/OR Bluesky.
But you must leave Twitter.
Then I will pay to subscribe, even though it hurts. But I *will* pay.
I'm not asking you to be crazy, and do it in a day. You have tons of followers. Let them know. Give them a date. They will move.
You're a public intellectual. Your presence on Twitter helps Elon fund, even if the amount is trivial. Your presence on Twitter lends prestige to the platform. You can say it's not much, and maybe you're right. But it's something. And you don't belong there. You know you cannot post whatever you want there.
All of this should give you pause for thought.
The offer stands. (The "Upgrade to paid" button is still here, and I will indeed press it.) But you have to do the right thing.
To the contrary, I once took a carefully measured, and pure, dose of LSD. I spent the trip mostly listening to music, featuring among other titles, "Talking Book", Stevie Wonder's epic.
I spent the next three days (long after the 'trip' concluded, which only lasts a number of hours) in a mental state that I wish I could live in forever. I was "at one, with everyone". Unfortunately, it fades, and may not be sustainable. But I'm very reluctant to blame "psychedelics" for antisocial behavior.
It's possible, of course. But who are the medical professionals making this claim? None I can see in this thread, so far.
What exactly do you mean when you say you lost your self? If I said that, I would mean that I at least didn't experience being at any point in my visual field anymore, but I don't know what you mean. How did you experience thoughts differently when you say you lost your self?
Also, do you meditate? Because it really sounds like if you don't, you should. I don't want to be rude here, but it does kind of sound like mindfulness could've made you notice what is and isn't making you happy. I think you've done very important work and you might be able to do that work without the negative emotions.
Awesome, can't wait to listen to both.
Didn't Luigi Mangione do psychedelics? My working theory is he has schizophrenia and paranoia led him to think he's a great man of history. He's at the right age, and psychedelics are a known risk for people with schizophrenic tendencies.
I tried ayahuasca about 10 years ago in Colombia and it had zero effect on me, probably because I was on SSRIs. Since then I've tried both mushrooms and LSD -- same result. :-(
Yeah, he did, and I think your working theory is probably correct. :(
I think for aya you have to be off SSRIs, they don't work well together at all. The retreat organizers were very serious on the topic, so it must be for good reason.
Hi Sarah. I heard your pod with Ethan and thought it was great. I have a question about your comment that you probably would not take ayahuasca again.
I use psychedelics somewhat regularly, multiple times per year, and am planning to take pharmahuasca in the near future. I view psychedelics (and drugs generally) as the amoral, neutral molecules. All the good and bad lies in our interaction with the substances. With that in mind, my question about future use is very sincere and not judgmental.
I find the psychedelic experience frightening but overall positive, and I tend to go on a journey when curiosity overcomes my fear. Is your trepidation a result of the psychedelic state, or more about the retreat surroundings? I have some interest in doing a retreat but honestly prefer to trip alone and have misgivings about doing so in a group atmosphere. Sorry for the wandering question, and thanks for the opportunity to post.
Thanks for asking! Many of my friends have said that my "bad" trip was due to the surroundings, and given that many of them feel strongly about it, perhaps it is so!
Although my own (strong) feeling is that it didn't really matter. Once I plugged up my ears and closed my eyes, I went where it took me.
As far as "letting go"... I think this is partially why I gravitated to something so powerful right away. I don't really "let go" easily (it is not something I can control), so I wanted something strong enough to pull the rug from under me. I'm not sure if it did that--I think a part of me disassociated and maintained lucidity/skepticism throughout.
What is "pharmahuasca"?
Psychedelics can tell you what you need to know even without taking them..seems like a contradiction, but it’s usually wise to follow your gut. Even bad trips give a person insight. But whatever..look at my avatar and know that I used to do acid right out of the blotter and eat shrooms and NEVER had a bad trip lol. Weed on the other hand makes me paranoid for a while almost every time I smoke
Ahh.. I did not gather that you had a bad trip from the podcast. Enough said, I have had bad experiences with psychedelics, mostly when I was younger and more foolish.. The psychonauts out in cyberspace will coach that a bad trip can be the most beneficial, but I think it is all pretty personal and singular.
Pharmahuasca is simply a mix of a pharmaceutical maoi inhibitor and a dmt (dimethyltryptamine) source, rather than a plant tea/extraction in the case of ayahuasca. Pills rather than green stew. I won't bore you or others with details, but there is lots of information out there.
Are you glad you did it at a retreat rather than at home alone or with friends? I know one great advantage of a retreat is not having to source molecules.
Did you see ‘entities’?
I have heard that many people see strange ‘beings’.
And did you vomit?
I have terrible nausea problems, so I actually took a *teensy* bit of zofran both nights. It helped tremendously. I still threw up, but it wasn't a big problem. Just came and went.
No I did not see entities, but everyone there radically transformed *into* entities.
https://nypost.com/2024/12/16/sports/new-aaron-rodgers-documentary-takes-you-on-one-of-his-ayahuasca-trips/
I applaud your explorations, Sarah. But if you can, please try to procure a clean and appropriate dose of LSD. (It's not easy, but it can be done.)
Yes. New pathways. But wonderful pathways, and without any puking. :)
I've traveled your path. My own experience is that your own mental preparation and setting contribute so much to the experience that you will have.
Your admissions here are very laudable. I hope they will lead others to responsible exploration. These are not toys. They are instruments.
And Sarah, my offer stands (I return-emailed one of your automatic missives, so you may or may not have received it, so I put it on Bluesky as well).
You leave Twitter. And I'm sorry, but it will always be Twitter, to me.
You join Threads and/OR Bluesky.
But you must leave Twitter.
Then I will pay to subscribe, even though it hurts. But I *will* pay.
I'm not asking you to be crazy, and do it in a day. You have tons of followers. Let them know. Give them a date. They will move.
You're a public intellectual. Your presence on Twitter helps Elon fund, even if the amount is trivial. Your presence on Twitter lends prestige to the platform. You can say it's not much, and maybe you're right. But it's something. And you don't belong there. You know you cannot post whatever you want there.
All of this should give you pause for thought.
The offer stands. (The "Upgrade to paid" button is still here, and I will indeed press it.) But you have to do the right thing.
Best,
Yuki
To the contrary, I once took a carefully measured, and pure, dose of LSD. I spent the trip mostly listening to music, featuring among other titles, "Talking Book", Stevie Wonder's epic.
I spent the next three days (long after the 'trip' concluded, which only lasts a number of hours) in a mental state that I wish I could live in forever. I was "at one, with everyone". Unfortunately, it fades, and may not be sustainable. But I'm very reluctant to blame "psychedelics" for antisocial behavior.
It's possible, of course. But who are the medical professionals making this claim? None I can see in this thread, so far.
Hi Sarah, love you!
What exactly do you mean when you say you lost your self? If I said that, I would mean that I at least didn't experience being at any point in my visual field anymore, but I don't know what you mean. How did you experience thoughts differently when you say you lost your self?
Also, do you meditate? Because it really sounds like if you don't, you should. I don't want to be rude here, but it does kind of sound like mindfulness could've made you notice what is and isn't making you happy. I think you've done very important work and you might be able to do that work without the negative emotions.
Best,
Haitze